Member demanding a refund

[kpm]

Hello,

I am a club president, and I have a member demanding a refund. She
paid her dues in September, and then didn't show up for her next
speaking assignment, which is a recurring problem with her. Because
it's such a problem, our VP of Education decided to drop her from the
schedule until she could provide some dates when she would be available
and would, in fact, show up.

Rather than providing dates, this member decided to contact the
treasurer and demand a full refund of her dues, including national and
club dues, claiming that she is not being provided the benefits of
membership. She also viciously attacked our VP of Education
personally in several emails, and claimed that we conspired to get her
membership dues while all along intending to drop her from the
schedule.

I have refused her request. We have no refund policy, nor was I able
to find one on the TI website. Most of all, I will not reward her
behavior. However, our treasurer believes we should give her a refund
just to be rid of her.

Any advice?

Kevin

[Mark Perew]

Kevin -

I would give her a refund of the clubs dues only, just to be done with the
matter at the club level. The club is not authorized to refund the
International dues. This member would have to call WHQ to get that refund,
and I can't imagine that they would.

An alternative is that she transfers her membership to another club. If I
recall correctly, that would mean the club would write a check to her new
club for the prorated portion of the club dues. The International dues
would be unchanged and unrefunded.

Post by kpm
Hello,
I am a club president, and I have a member demanding a refund. She
paid her dues in September, and then didn't show up for her next
speaking assignment, which is a recurring problem with her. Because
it's such a problem, our VP of Education decided to drop her from the
schedule until she could provide some dates when she would be available
and would, in fact, show up.
Rather than providing dates, this member decided to contact the
treasurer and demand a full refund of her dues, including national and
club dues, claiming that she is not being provided the benefits of
membership. She also viciously attacked our VP of Education
personally in several emails, and claimed that we conspired to get her
membership dues while all along intending to drop her from the
schedule.
I have refused her request. We have no refund policy, nor was I able
to find one on the TI website. Most of all, I will not reward her
behavior. However, our treasurer believes we should give her a refund
just to be rid of her.
Any advice?
Kevin

[kpm]

Mark,

On what basis does she warrant a refund of her club dues?

Kevin

[Mark Perew]

Post by kpm
Mark,
On what basis does she warrant a refund of her club dues?

None. The only value in the refund of the club dues is in allowing you, the
other officers, and the club to move on.

[John Fleming, DTM]

On 07 Nov 2005 08:18:02 EST, while chained to a desk in the scriptorium,

$I would give her a refund of the clubs dues only, just to be done with the
$matter at the club level. The club is not authorized to refund the
$International dues. This member would have to call WHQ to get that refund,
$and I can't imagine that they would.

If I recall correctly, the International portion of the dues is
non-refundable.

Like it or not, short of moving and not giving TI a forwarding address,
the member in question will get her copy of Toastmaster magazine every
month until the club doesn't renew her membership in the spring.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada

Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President

A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.

- Gordon L. Glegg

[Eric Matto]

If your club collects annually then I would refund her dues for the second
semi-annual period (i.e. the part that starts in April), but I wouldn't give
any for the current period. People pay for membership for a period of time,
not for a number of meetings attended or speeches given.
--
Eric Matto, DTM, PDG
Imm. Past President, Mississauga Valley TM Club #8277-60
VP Education, Voice of Experience Advanced TM Club #583400-60
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

Post by kpm
Hello,
I am a club president, and I have a member demanding a refund. She
paid her dues in September, and then didn't show up for her next
speaking assignment, which is a recurring problem with her. Because
it's such a problem, our VP of Education decided to drop her from the
schedule until she could provide some dates when she would be available
and would, in fact, show up.
Rather than providing dates, this member decided to contact the
treasurer and demand a full refund of her dues, including national and
club dues, claiming that she is not being provided the benefits of
membership. She also viciously attacked our VP of Education
personally in several emails, and claimed that we conspired to get her
membership dues while all along intending to drop her from the
schedule.
I have refused her request. We have no refund policy, nor was I able
to find one on the TI website. Most of all, I will not reward her
behavior. However, our treasurer believes we should give her a refund
just to be rid of her.
Any advice?
Kevin

[Nigel Reed]

Post by Eric Matto
If your club collects annually then I would refund her dues for the second
semi-annual period (i.e. the part that starts in April), but I wouldn't give
any for the current period. People pay for membership for a period of time,
not for a number of meetings attended or speeches given.

Hopefully you have a record of all the dates the speaker was due to talk
and that they were notified and missed the meeting. This should be a
wake-up call for all of us that we need to keep proper records of not
only who attends meetings, but who was scheduled to but didn't turn up.

I say the member gets nothing. She's been given fair warning. The
abusive emails should be handed over to her ISP.

Regards
Nigel
--
www.myoldcontacts.com - Tell your friends to tell their friends
www.sysadmininc.com - Consultancy, Service, Sales, Networking...
www.british-expats.com - Connect with British Expats World Wide
www.kxez.com/shows_britishinvasion.php - 9-11pm Sunday. KXEZ 92.1 FM


"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" --Adam Savage.

[John Sleigh]

Kevin has a problem with a member who was suspended from the speaking roster
because of non-attendance and now wants a fee refund.

Before getting too excited about the legal and moral issues, of more concern
to me is what should have (and may have) happened before this incident
ignited.

What sort of communication took place before and during the suspension. Did
the VPE act alone, or were other committee members involved?

I understand the problems that non attenders cause, but has anyone tried to
resolve the problem before taking the drastic action of removal from the
roster. What processes are in place to identify and resolve the problem
early?

I'm not asking Kevin to comment on thsi particular case, but do think we all
need to consider how we approach problems like this before it becomes a
major issue that will create a negative impression of Toastmsters in the
mind of those involved. This is about communication and leadership.

John Sleigh DTM
Sydney, Australia

[Yoj]

Post by John Sleigh
Kevin has a problem with a member who was suspended from the speaking roster
because of non-attendance and now wants a fee refund.
Before getting too excited about the legal and moral issues, of more concern
to me is what should have (and may have) happened before this incident
ignited.
What sort of communication took place before and during the suspension. Did
the VPE act alone, or were other committee members involved?
I understand the problems that non attenders cause, but has anyone tried to
resolve the problem before taking the drastic action of removal from the
roster. What processes are in place to identify and resolve the problem
early?
I'm not asking Kevin to comment on thsi particular case, but do think we all
need to consider how we approach problems like this before it becomes a
major issue that will create a negative impression of Toastmsters in the
mind of those involved. This is about communication and leadership.
John Sleigh DTM
Sydney, Australia

He didn't say she was removed from the roster, just from the schedule. In
my largest club, about half of the members on our roster never come to
meetings, so they aren't included in the schedule. Why schedule someone for
a role if they aren't going to show up to fulfill it?
--
Joy Gaylord, ATM, CL
Simi Valley Toastmasters, #3533/33
Nova Toastmasters, #5507/52
Storytelling & Performing Arts Toastmasters, #7663/52
Southern California

"When you write a story, you're telling yourself the story. When you
rewrite, your main job is taking out all the things that are not the
tory." – John Gould, as quoted by Stephen King in ‘On Writing'

**Don't believe everything you think**

[Colin William]

Post by John Sleigh
Before getting too excited about the legal and moral issues, of more
concern to me is what should have (and may have) happened before this
incident ignited.
What sort of communication took place before and during the suspension.
Did the VPE act alone, or were other committee members involved?

Just based on the limited info in the original info it sounds like the VP-Ed
acted alone, but within the scope of the duties of the office. The poster
said that based on a "recurring problem", the VP-Ed "decided to drop her
from the schedule until she could provide some dates when she would be
available and would, in fact, show up". So it sounds like the VP-Ed did in
fact contact the individual to get information about her scheduling. The
method may not have been optimal if the VP-Ed did not attempt to get the
scheduling info in advance of dropping her, but it's certainly not such a
mistake to warrant her response

Superficially speaking it sounds to me like this person has no case. There
are still 5 months in the dues period, and having been asked for scheduling
info she still has plenty of access to getting her money's worth. This all
assumes, though, that there isn't something more to this than meets the eye.
Her response suggests either (a) problems on her part, or (b) that the
VP-Ed's side of the story is not complete.

Colin

[kpm]

I think many of you exaggerated on my original posting. Because this
particular member did not show up for her speaking assignment, and this
had been a recurring problem, our VP of Education simply did not wish
to schedule her until she could provide some dates when she would be
available to speak. She was neither suspended from the schedule nor
the roster. As soon as she provided dates, she would have been
scheduled for those dates. We have many professionals in our club
and, therefore, a very flexible scheduling policy. I travel a great
deal on business myself so I often let the VP of Education know when I
will or will not be in town. We asked no more from this member.

One of you suggested that we basically took her money and then dumped
her from the schedule. Actually, she sent in her money, and then
didn't show up for a speaking assignment a couple of weeks later, at
which point our VP of Education sent her note asking for the dates.

Our policy our our website clearly states that it is the job of a
member to find a replacement if he/she cannot make a scheduled role.
This member does not accept this posted responsibility. We have a
club mailing list so, to find a substitute, all this member has to do
is send an email to the mailing list and all other members will receive
it.

Yes, our VP of Education acted alone, but her action was entirely
logical. Her job is to get speakers on the schedule who will show up.
She simply asked this member for some dates. Do all of you who
have questioned this have committee meetings for such simple
situations? Officers are elected to fulfill a role.

When she complained to me, I too asked her to simply let me know when
she could speak, and we would simply schedule her as an extra speaker
so we would not be short a speaker. She did not agree, and again
demanded a refund.

By the way, her excuse every time she cancels is simply, "I did not
have time to prepare." While this is perhaps a reasonable excuse
occassionally, would she not know this a few days before the meeting so
she can find a substitute? If she simply would give the club some
notice, we would never have had an issue. Even with a day's notice,
we can usually find a sub. She's never given us that notice.

Kevin

[Rick]

Post by kpm
I think many of you exaggerated on my original posting. Because this
particular member did not show up for her speaking assignment, and this
had been a recurring problem, our VP of Education simply did not wish
to schedule her until she could provide some dates when she would be
available to speak. She was neither suspended from the schedule nor
the roster. As soon as she provided dates, she would have been
scheduled for those dates.

You did everything that you needed to. You gave her several
opportunities. But, is there something else you could do?

As you said later in your posting, her excuses were weak. They sound
like excuses and not reasons. A lot of people join Toastmasters because
of a real FEAR of speaking. Could the reason be that she couldn't get
up the nerve to speak? Does she have a mentor? Has she practiced the
speech with the mentor?

Winning speech contestants give their speech many times before they
compete at the international level? If the best speakers can, why not
the beginners. She could do a dry run of her Ice Breaker at an
officers' meeting. At both the officers' meeting and the club meeting,
pick an experienced member who can build up her confidence during the
evaluation.

There may be another reason besides fear, but that is the most common
issue when new members can't give their Ice Breaker.

--
Rick Clements, ATM-G, CL
President Daylighters Toastmasters
District 7 Webmaster
***@verizon.net
http://www.geocities.com/rick_clements/tm.htm

[Colin William]

Post by kpm
Our policy our our website clearly states that it is the job of a
member to find a replacement if he/she cannot make a scheduled role.
This member does not accept this posted responsibility. We have a
club mailing list so, to find a substitute, all this member has to do
is send an email to the mailing list and all other members will receive
it.

I think the action of the VPE overall is appropriate, assuming hte
communication of it was not confrontational. She's had opportunities, and
hasn't taken them. I think the member just wants out, and wants her $27 to
take with her.

Colin

[kpm]

As a follow-up, this member has let me know that if we don't refund her
membership fees (both club and international) she will tell anyone who
will listen how unethical we are.

I let her know again (both by phone and email) that if she would just
let me know when she is available to speak, we will gladly schedule her
for those dates. She also claims we pressured her into paying her
dues. The pressure she speaks of is the Treasurer getting up at a
meeting in September and asking the membership for their dues.

So, I've apolgized for any misunderstanding, explained the policies to
her, and offered to assist her myself with any scheduling difficulties.
She also has a mentor, and I know this mentor to be quite good.
She's given 4 speeches in 2 years, which is not many, but this is not
due to a fear of speaking to the group.

Anyway, I'm done with it. If she provides dates, she's on the
schedule. It's that simple. No one would continue to regularly
schedule someone who is never going to show. That hurts the whole
club. That doesn't require some written policy. It's just common
sense. If she chooses to call me unethical, I'm happy to defend the
reputation of our club after 50 years of success.

Kevin
Summit Toastmasters

[Yoj]

Post by kpm
As a follow-up, this member has let me know that if we don't refund her
membership fees (both club and international) she will tell anyone who
will listen how unethical we are.
I let her know again (both by phone and email) that if she would just
let me know when she is available to speak, we will gladly schedule her
for those dates. She also claims we pressured her into paying her
dues. The pressure she speaks of is the Treasurer getting up at a
meeting in September and asking the membership for their dues.
So, I've apolgized for any misunderstanding, explained the policies to
her, and offered to assist her myself with any scheduling difficulties.
She also has a mentor, and I know this mentor to be quite good.
She's given 4 speeches in 2 years, which is not many, but this is not
due to a fear of speaking to the group.
Anyway, I'm done with it. If she provides dates, she's on the
schedule. It's that simple. No one would continue to regularly
schedule someone who is never going to show. That hurts the whole
club. That doesn't require some written policy. It's just common
sense. If she chooses to call me unethical, I'm happy to defend the
reputation of our club after 50 years of success.
Kevin
Summit Toastmasters

You have done everything possible to resolve the problem. She is the one
who is being unethical.

Joy

[John Sleigh]

Post by Yoj

Post by kpm
As a follow-up, this member has let me know that if we don't refund her
membership fees (both club and international) she will tell anyone who
will listen how unethical we are.

You have done everything possible to resolve the problem. She is the one
who is being unethical.

Unfortunately, "she" will find an audience.As I said earlier,

we all
need to consider how we approach problems like this before it becomes a
major issue that will create a negative impression of Toastmasters in the
mind of those involved. This is about communication and leadership.


John Sleigh DTM
Sydney, Australia

[Rod Taylor]

Post by John Sleigh

Post by Yoj

Post by kpm
As a follow-up, this member has let me know that if we don't refund her
membership fees (both club and international) she will tell anyone who
will listen how unethical we are.

You have done everything possible to resolve the problem. She is the one
who is being unethical.

Unfortunately, "she" will find an audience.As I said earlier,
we all
need to consider how we approach problems like this before it becomes a
major issue that will create a negative impression of Toastmasters in the
mind of those involved. This is about communication and leadership.

It sounds as though it's reached a lose-lose situation, which is unfortunate
for everyone. Sadly, there are no longer any right answers or simple
solutions. It seems the member concerned has, for whatever reason,
effectively declared war on Toastmasters and, as John writes, she will find
an audience. I suspect that giving her the requested refund would be
unlikely to change her views. It might still be possible to pacify her and
reduce the damage with skilled intervention but, in my opinion, the effort
might be disproportionate to the benefits. She will tell her version of
events and there's nothing that will prevent it, short of gross
overreaction. Unless she has a particularly high profile, exposure, or
influence in the community, the damage will be slight, although it's damage
nonetheless.

Chalk it up as a learning experience for all concerned.

Rod Taylor (***@iafrica.com)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa

[Colin William]

Post by John Sleigh

Post by Yoj

Post by kpm
As a follow-up, this member has let me know that if we don't refund her
membership fees (both club and international) she will tell anyone who
will listen how unethical we are.

You have done everything possible to resolve the problem. She is the one
who is being unethical.

Unfortunately, "she" will find an audience.As I said earlier,
we all
need to consider how we approach problems like this before it becomes a
major issue that will create a negative impression of Toastmasters in the
mind of those involved. This is about communication and leadership.

Indeed it is, but at this point the member is moving to the point of
blackmail/extortion - give me money back or I will speak ill of you. I think
the best hope for the club at this point is to hope, as someone else posted,
that her credibility is zero, and let the club's example be its defense.

Colin

[John Sleigh]

There is a TI program "Moments of Truth." I don't have a copy of it handy at
the moment, but it based on Jan Carlson's book of the same name, which I use
extensively in my training programs.

The underlying theme is that every time a person has a contact with a
Toastmaster (in our case) they get a glimpse of the whole organization. To
the prospect, guest or new member, the club by-laws mean little, it is the
one to one interaction with the Toastmaster that creates an impression of
the whole 10,000 clubs and 200,000 members.

The situation that Kevin described is now probably irretrievable, and as Rod
wrote: "Sadly, there are no longer any right answers or simple
solutions."

While it would be nice if it was as simple as Andy hopes, that she "probably
lacks the credibility to harm your club," unfortunately that is not my
experience.

I have heard some terrible descriptions of what happens in Toastmasters
clubs from people who know people who have been once. The recent "Is
Toastmasters a cult?" thread is part of it, the other thread about buttoning
coats not saying thank you contributes. In other cases it was a cruel
evaluation. While there are probably millions of former members out there
who have positive recollections of their Toastmasters experience, there are
also a few who have a very negative impression, gained either from their own
experience or that of someone they are willing to believe. I find this among
HR managers and other professional speakers to a suprpising degree.

These impressions are Moments of Truth for the person making a decision
about whether to come, come back or stay. We have to constantly model
behavior that shows that the occasional negative moments were aberrations,
that the real Toastmasters provides "a mutually supportive and positive
learning environment in which every member has the opportunity to develop
communication and leadership skills, which in turn foster self-confidence
and personal growth."

Remember that many of our prospective members are looking for a solution to
a problem that scares them - a speech at work or their best friend's
wedding. If they can find a reason to put off confronting their fears, they
will. They are in part the disaffected member's audience. The rest of the
audience is made of people who like the disaffected member for other
reasons. They will accept her opinion without exploring it deeply, and for
them it will more likely become a moment of truth about Toastmasters rather
than one about the credibility or ethics of the ex-member.

This doesn't mean the end of Toastmasters as we know it. There are many more
people getting positive impressions every day than there are negative ones.
As a result the organization continues to grow. When I go fishing, I don't
feel disappointed if I don't catch every fish. So the ones that aren't
attracted to the bait and I both live happily ever after. But it is
frustrating when I almost land one, and it gets away.

I'm not sure what Kevin and his team could have done in this case to contain
it earlier. What I do hope is that he, like the rest of us, learns from the
experience so that next time we don't have another disaffected member to
deal with.

John Sleigh DTM
Sydney, Australia

[Anthony Shipley]

Post by John Sleigh
Remember that many of our prospective members are looking for a solution to
a problem that scares them - a speech at work or their best friend's
wedding. If they can find a reason to put off confronting their fears, they
will. They are in part the disaffected member's audience. The rest of the
audience is made of people who like the disaffected member for other
reasons. They will accept her opinion without exploring it deeply, and for
them it will more likely become a moment of truth about Toastmasters rather
than one about the credibility or ethics of the ex-member.

I disagree somewhat. We must accept that Toastmasters a people and as an
organisation is not perfect. There will be good Toastmasters and bad ones. We
all will have our favourite and a couple we dislike -- maybe intensely -- that's
almost certain or any other organisation.

We should proudly state "Yes, we are imperfect... but we are working on it! We
know it's working because we're getting better at it".

I personally don't like the sort of post that paints TMI as some sort of
paradise. Some times there are vicious differences and emnities in a club.
That's great! We can benefit from it; we can learn how to prove ourselves.

I think of Toastmasters as a well worn, if pot-holed road, that gets us to our
goal. Sometimes we're a bit late, sometimes we blow a tyre and sometimes we're
not very generous with others. It's our frailties that brings us together and
allows us to improve this aspect of our life skills.

In that sense, there are times when we might, just occasionally, be regarded as
a cult.

--
2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

[Gene Wirchenko]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Andy Kaplan, ATMB, AL]

If this member has this pattern of behavior with that she exhibits
with your club, I would imagime that probably lacks the credibility to
harm your club, She sounds like a self-destructive individual seeking
attention. Part of being a leader is also taking the heat and dealing
with the situation in an ethical way.

Your club members sound like they support you, since you ddin't mention
anyone else including other members of your executive committee coming
to her support or "rescue". The only other step I would take to cover
yourself is to alert your Area Governor and Division Governor of the
situation as she may try to join another club and somehow get their
attention via a call to TI.

One of the things that Toastmasters encourages clubs to do is to vote
members in when they first apply to the club. Legally, if there is a
problem, you can vote members out. Most clubs including my own do not
do this.


Andrew Kaplan
Diistrict 37 PRO
Area Governor of the Year 2004-5
Club President of the Year 2003-4

[Rick]

Post by Andy Kaplan, ATMB, AL
One of the things that Toastmasters encourages clubs to do is to vote
members in when they first apply to the club. Legally, if there is a
problem, you can vote members out. Most clubs including my own do not
do this.

I don't see how voting members in or out would have any affect on this
situation. Voting people in and out is to solve the problem with a
trouble some member who won't leave. In this case, she wants to leave.
Voting her out would allow her to say they won't give me my money AND
they won't let me attend.

Our club doesn't vote people in. In the cases that I've seen, the
problem is the club deciding that the person is a problem and should
leave. I saw a club fold before making that decision.

I have seen clubs come to the decision that a member is harming the
club. With my club, they were dealing with that issue as I joined. No
one was Christian enough for her and she let everyone know. It had cost
the club about a dozen members before the officers decided they ran out
of options. They had tried talking to her several times. Once they
finally reached the point that they asked her to leave, she left.

--
Rick Clements, ATM-G, CL
President Daylighters Toastmasters
District 7 Webmaster
***@verizon.net
http://www.geocities.com/rick_clements/tm.htm

[Andy Kaplan, ATMB, AL]

Here is my take. You took the members dues prior to October 1. Then as
soon as she paid your VP of Ed unilaterally decided to drop her from
the roster without you (as President) speaking to the member.

At most Toastmasters clubs (and I have been an area governor for two
years and have visited over 20 clubs) speakers do not show up for their
assignments for a variety of reasons (not ready for the speech, Fear,
confilict in work/family schedule, etc.). As best practices, I
encourage the Toastmaster of the week to contact his participants at
least two weeks prior to the meeting to confirm their speech name and #
and to get some background/bio info for an introduction. If the speaker
is not ready then the Toastmaster and/or VP of Ed can seek out other
speakers, can insert an alternative such as a longer table topics or a
"canned" speech from the Better Speakers, Leadership, or Better Club
series.

Did your club "Seek to Understand" why that individual was not showing
up. I also have doubts that she is the only speaker NOT to show up.

It seems that you as President needed to add a bylaw to your club and
make a motion that said something like "If a person does not show up
for 30 days or misses three consecutive speaking assignments, they will
be considered and "inactive" member. The first meeting they show up,
they will the be considered "active" and added to the calendar/duty
roster" What your VP of Ed did was single out a member without having
an official policy in place agreed upon by all members.

This is also important, becuase inactive members do not count in the %
of members needed for a quorum when taking votes and electing
officers.

Andy Kaplan
District 37 PRO
Area Governor of the Year 2004-5

Post by kpm
Hello,
I am a club president, and I have a member demanding a refund. She
paid her dues in September, and then didn't show up for her next
speaking assignment, which is a recurring problem with her. Because
it's such a problem, our VP of Education decided to drop her from the
schedule until she could provide some dates when she would be available
and would, in fact, show up.
Rather than providing dates, this member decided to contact the
treasurer and demand a full refund of her dues, including national and
club dues, claiming that she is not being provided the benefits of
membership. She also viciously attacked our VP of Education
personally in several emails, and claimed that we conspired to get her
membership dues while all along intending to drop her from the
schedule.
I have refused her request. We have no refund policy, nor was I able
to find one on the TI website. Most of all, I will not reward her
behavior. However, our treasurer believes we should give her a refund
just to be rid of her.
Any advice?
Kevin

[Nigel Reed]

Post by Andy Kaplan, ATMB, AL
Here is my take. You took the members dues prior to October 1. Then as
soon as she paid your VP of Ed unilaterally decided to drop her from
the roster without you (as President) speaking to the member.

Communcation and Leadership also involves reading what the original
poster wrote. Which bit, exactly, of "dropped from the schedule" makes
you think the complaining member was dropped from the roster?

The Toastmaster fees are non refunable and non transferable. You should
inspect your club by-laws to see if the club part is too. I guess this
would be up to the club membership but otherwise, shoulda read the find
print.

Regards
Nigel
--
www.myoldcontacts.com - Tell your friends to tell their friends
www.sysadmininc.com - Consultancy, Service, Sales, Networking...
www.british-expats.com - Connect with British Expats World Wide
www.kxez.com/shows_britishinvasion.php - 9-11pm Sunday. KXEZ 92.1 FM


"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" --Adam Savage.

[Eric Matto]

Post by Nigel Reed
The Toastmaster fees are non refunable and non transferable. You should

Depends on what you mean by "non transferable". A member can certainly
transfer to another club, and the TI portion of their dues is transferable.
The club part is subject to negotiation between the old and new club. Dues
cannot be transferred from one member to another.

[John Fleming, DTM]

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:36:08 -0500, while chained to a desk in the

$> The Toastmaster fees are non refunable and non transferable. You should
$
$Depends on what you mean by "non transferable". A member can certainly
$transfer to another club, and the TI portion of their dues is transferable.
$The club part is subject to negotiation between the old and new club. Dues
$cannot be transferred from one member to another.

I think that, subject to the term not being defined in some other way in
the context in which it is used, the term "non tranferable" would
generally be taken to mean Person A cannot transfer his or her
membership to Person B.

In the event a member wishes to transfer membership to another club, the
membership is transferable and TM clearly lays out the mechanism for
doing this.

In the event a member wished to transfer a membership to another person,
the membership is non-transferable.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada

Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Immediate Past President

A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.

- Gordon L. Glegg

[Nigel Reed]

Post by kpm
Hello,
Any advice?

Oh, just send her to me, I'll get her to shut her cakehole :)


Regards
Nigel
--
www.myoldcontacts.com - Tell your friends to tell their friends
www.sysadmininc.com - Consultancy, Service, Sales, Networking...
www.british-expats.com - Connect with British Expats World Wide
www.kxez.com/shows_britishinvasion.php - 9-11pm Sunday. KXEZ 92.1 FM


"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" --Adam Savage.